I don’t know if they’d call it a manifesto, but what the folks at Democracy and Hip-hop have laid down certainly reads like one. Let me say at the outset that this is the type of critical work that we need to be creating and fighting about. This is the only way we’re going to be able to make sense of the reality we find ourselves in without resorting to the language and ideas of times past.
With that said though I have a number of questions. In fact this will probably be split up into a number of posts.
How are we to judge the following statement:
“we conclude that hip-hop, as a form of culture with literally millions of participants here and across the globe, is the best indicator; the best gauge of the consciousness of the masses of people throughout the world and it expresses not only all that is ugly about them, but all that is beautiful and all that yearns to be free. It gives the best approximation of where they are and where they are going, of the present stage in their historical movement to institute a free and democratic society.”
Is this just a numbers thing? That is, can we make this claim about hip-hop because more people listen to it/practice it than other forms of popular culture? I could easily make such a claim about house music–I could definitely make more of a claim about its rootedness (because it is largely faceless and because it wasn’t started in nyc, American music executives were loathe to try to make headway into the genre). I could make similar claims for electro, for techno…and a lesser claim for bass music.
Further, it’s a stretch to say that hip-hop is the “best” arbiter of what the masses of people are doing. If by “best” you mean “most representative” then perhaps you can make a case. People who are performing and consuming hip-hop do so in a wide variety of mind states, and express those states in a variety of different ways. But in America and elsewhere those ways are skewed by market forces. Those market forces may actually skew how humanity behaves in a way that makes it LESS representative. Even the underground responds to the market–acts putting out mixtapes just to get a record deal, which in turn skews the artistic decisions they make as far as what to include/not include in a track. Breakdancing has already moved out of the clubs and into spaces formerly reserved for house because the clubs want to maximize bodies per square foot.
I just read, and plan to reread and give some thought to Democracy and Hip Hop’s insightful post. Several thoughts came to mind after I read the piece and your post. Most of my thoughts, I am certain, came to the minds of other readers.
One thought, however, surprised me a bit. ‘What of Hip Hop psychology?‘
Hip Hop’s social psychology is studied directly and indirectly as we study movements, ideologies, philosophies, languages, and cultures that it influences or that influence it. I am, however, curious about the psychologies of the artists and poets, especially the most influential artists and poets. Artists and poets, who would seek fame and wealth via this most public of professions, probably have sexual/power fantasies they desire to fulfill through their social roles as famous and influential entertainers/inspirers.
So, I am curious about the psychologies, especially the sexual/power fantasies, of these would-be famous artists and poets. How do the sexual/power fantasies of a Lauryn Hill type differ from a Kanye West type differ from a 50 Cent type differ from the Black Eyed Peas type differ from Dead Prez or NYOIL type? What influences their fantasies? Why have these types chosen the faces, the personas, they have chosen? Why do they use the topics and themes they use for their speech, for their art?
I think it is easier to analyze and make generalizations about the audiences that consume Hip Hop than it is to understand the psychological motives of its artists and poets. Yet, I would like to know more about the artists and poets and the fantasies or ethical forces that compel them to use the genre the way they do, for political speech, for cultural speech, for artistic speech. But mostly for speech that seeks to fulfill sexual/power fantasies related to their desires for others’ adulation and respect; their desires for powerful ethical or persuasive influences over others’ wills; or their desires for the near slave-like devotions of many people they might treat as their mere sexual objects—in subtle and quasi-compassionate ways or in blatantly sadistic ways.
I wonder if the psychologies of most Hip Hop artists and poets are very different from that of the megalomaniac politician type, or would-be despot type, or the would-be Don Juan type striving to rule over the wills of others, longing to use others as means to fulfill sexual and power fantasies. And, I wonder if any influential Hip Hop artist or poet could be a wise man or woman who would (or could) seek to improve souls through his or her art and would have (or could have) primarily altruistic motives.
this is something i don’t think anyone has dealt with. in fact though there is a growing literature on creativity and innovation–what drives it, how can we harness it, etc. i recall reading an article about the decisions mcs made when choosing to improvise around a given track. but nothing like what your propose.
Lester,
I’m really happy you’ve taken it upon yourself to lay out a serious critique of our position on hip-hop. It is truly a living document that will be added to and refined as our discussion unfolds. I like to consider it as merely a place to begin and it is certainly not the nor our final word on hip-hop or hip-hop intellectualism
Ooops. I didn’t get to finish my thought, there. I will definitely respond in full to both your and Mr. Hopkins’ responses. Thanks again.
This is from my friend Lauren Ray in Atlanta that was emailed to me shortly after we posted the piece. She brings up some great questions that I haven’t had the opportunity to respond to yet, but this will broaden the conversation more.
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#3 on Intelligentsia
i noticed you had mentioned this in your original reference to the book project you and your boy are working on, that you guys wanted to foment the new hip hop intelligentsia. as i’ve generally understood, intellectuals, as a class of intellectuals, constitutes something separate from other social layers (may we divide the others as the working class and the ruling class). this isn’t a completely black and white division, ie what it means to be working class today means many things, from being a worker on an assembly line at a poultry plant to working certain civil service jobs. an intellectual excels in matters of the “intellect”–philosophical, historical, scientific, and ideological study and inquiry. intellectual also implies someone who thinks but not necessarily acts; who records but not necessarily influences or intervenes. and if intellectuals constitute a more or less distinct class within society, it means there are those who think (intellectuals), those who manage (ruling class), and those who do (working class). it seems to be a continuation of the division between mental and manual labor (which social revolution must
reconcile) which says that because there are those who work/do, the existence of those who manage is necessary to the survival of society as without them the “do-ers” would dissolve into chaos. today this is justified with all types of theories of false consciousness and privilege. ultimately, this division is the countercurrent to the belief that everyday folks can and must be self-governing.
so my question to you, what is the intelligentsia are you hoping to build? what is its relation to the “do-ers” of hip hop?
#6 on Foundation
i’m not quite familiar with how hip hop has grown and evolved geographically in the national context, let alone international; i’m mostly familiar with some of the history from new york, chicago, and more so now the south in general. but from my discussions with cats who were around way back when and from reading different things, one of the dopest foundations of hip hop lies in the fact that to a large extent it was and has always been multiracial, despite mainstream characterizations to the contrary. whether it was the mostly white punks/hardcore scene supporting the mcs/djs (mostly black, but also significant numbers of asian and latino folks), coming out to their shows, buying albums, and vice versa in nyc in the 90s or the graf artists forming multiracial crews or using the train lines to communicate across segregated neighborhoods, this is part of the foundation that gets left out and which i’m particularly motivated by.
this is of course not to say that racism and segregation have never played a role in hip hop.
#8 on Method
on a surface level my first response is to say that i disagree to some extent because even hip hop has been influenced by other music forms, ie we can look at incorporations of rock and even electronic house (that may not be the best name to describe the genre i’m thinking of, but hey) into hip hop…chicago’s underground (and perhaps other
places) has a lot of the former, where hip hop groups adopt a bassist or guitarist, then have the dj in the background and the mc raps over the guitar riff.
beyond this though, it seems like maybe there’s another element that i’m missing, related to why you even titled this point “Method” in the first place…perhaps you could elaborate here?
#9 on Universality
I was recently forwarded this article by TS Eliot, entitled “Tradition and the Individual Talent”, perhaps you’ve read it?
http://www.english.uiuc.edu/maps/poets/a_f/eliot/tradition.htm
haven’t read this in its entirety but from what i’ve been able to skim it seems like ts eliot is arguing that new generations always seek to create something new, to be different, to distinguish themselves from past traditions thru their own innovation, but in reality there is a dual relationship with traditions and the past–that is we both shape them and are shaped by them.
Lester,
Again, thank you so much for your post about our blog. We very much respect the work you do and the encouragement you have given us. We are regulars of your blog and follow your work wherever it takes you. You are an ally in our small corner of the blogosphere.
We would avoid any attempts at dogmatizing hip-hop by considering our piece a “manifestoâ€. Manifestos typically take the form of political programs and since our piece is more of an exposition of our very general ideas on hip-hop, I don’t think it qualifies as such. The problem is that most of our hip-hop intellectuals regard hip-hop as if it originated in some manifesto; complete with a universal application, a standard of principles, and category of thought in which to consider it. With that said, we would more than likely view the piece as a position paper and, more broadly, as a place to begin.
Your attempt to illustrate how people participate within hip-hop merely reinforces our point that the masses of people, through their struggles politically, are reaching for a new Universal, a higher integration of all the separate aspects of modern life, and hip-hop is the best artistic gauge of this Universal because of its multiplicitous and universal character. In the Universality of Hip-Hop, I wrote,
…there is a hip-hop for every social or sub-social grouping in the country. There is a hip-hop for white, suburban youth, e.g., Anticon, Def Jux, etc., a hip-hop for poor whites in the trailer parks, e.g., ICP, Vanilla Ice, Twiztid, etc., a hip-hop for Southern listeners, e.g. T.I., Webbie, Lil’ Jon, Ludacris, etc., a hip-hop for Bay Area blacks, e.g. the Hyphy sound, E-40, Keak da Sneak, etc., for Bay Area whites, e.g. the Living Legends. And these categories are not rig idly defined and insular. These are general trends, but there is so much intercourse to speak of.
And in The Decay of the Hip-Hop Intellectual:
“hip-hop lives…in the ideas, attitudes, styles, slang, values, and music of our current generation. It exists in the roller rinks of the South, in the Crump of South Central, in the Hyphy of the Bay Area, at the Loop in Kansas City, in the Algerian communities of Marseille, in the favellas of Rio, etc., etc., etc.â€
Electronic music is no exception.
I’m no neo-classical economist. I don’t think that the figures on 50 Cent’s CD sales provide any sort of accurate representation of hip-hop’s popularity or significance, but I won’t altogether write it off either. Hip-hop largely exists outside of its established representatives and is mainly a form which common people express our current social organization, both economically and politically.
Robin D.G. Kelley propounds that the primary forms of working class as well as black resistance took place outside of its official organs and organizations. This logic can be applied to hip-hop with certain considerations, chiefly among them is what Jeff Chang states, and that is, “Art never produces coherent politics.†You won’t find in any hip-hop literature such critical analysis in only five words. We don’t believe hip-hop defines the course of its own existence. We do believe that the direction masses of people take make their impressions in our popular culture. The culture of today which represents this striving for a new Universal is hip-hop. When it is no longer hip-hop, we will lose interest.
Concerning breakdancing in particular, we would say that it declined less because of club policy and more because hip-hop evinced new contents such as “hip-hop†dance in the late 80s and early 90s and, more recently, crumping and clown dancing in South Central, Los Angeles. B-boys operated mainly outside of clubs anyway.
But the point to remember is that no matter how much hip-hop—whether we are considering its dance, art, or music—is absorbed and commodified by capital, regular people are always ready to invent and create new ways in which to express themselves. All too often, Leftist historians take the position that capital and market forces determine our existence and that history is essentially top-down. We would argue that through our struggles against capital, we compel it to a new stage of its existence as well.
Sorry for my delayed response.
Yo Les! I’ve recently gotten into graffiti. It’s directly related to hip-hop and democracy, though the linkage takes some spelling out. Here’s links to a couple of recent blog posts I’ve made on grafs:
http://www.thevalve.org/go/valve/article/shrine_of_the_triceratops_i/
http://www.thevalve.org/go/valve/article/grooves_grafs_and_toons_transnational_cultural_forms/